J. F. Cooper. London

Fakes? ... Knockoffs? ... or is imitation the sincerest form of flattery? Discuss here.

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J. F. Cooper. London

New postby Stephan » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:57 pm

I picked up this watch recently because of its size.
He is a big bloke at 52mm accross the dial.
I suspect it is a Swiss fake as all the other "Cooper" watches I can find appear to be much better quality.
Also the case has no hallmarks which I think rules out a London Maker.

What say you all.

cooper 003.jpg
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Re: J. F. Cooper. London

New postby veritas » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:53 pm

It sure looks very plain and i guess only a few jewels on each end of the balance staff.
I have seen much fancier Swiss Fakes.
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Re: J. F. Cooper. London

New postby Glyn Meredith » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:41 pm

Does it run, Steve?
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Re: J. F. Cooper. London

New postby Stephan » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:58 pm

The second wheel is not well. Broken pivots and damaged small gear.
Also has a broken main spring.
Looks to me like someone tried to take it apart without letting down the main spring.
Balance is good and all the jewels look OK. 15 I think.
Dial has 5 hairlines from centre to edge but no chips. Might soak out. No hands present.

Could be fixed but is it worth it.
I could also use this case to house the railway timekeeper mentioned in an earlier thread.
It fits perfectly.
Might even have come from the same factory as both appear to be Swiss.
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Re: J. F. Cooper. London

New postby Glyn Meredith » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:23 am

Would a Swiss "pretender" have 15 jewels?
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Re: J. F. Cooper. London

New postby Stephan » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:32 pm

The jewels are clear. Arn't they supposed to be a pink colour.
Here is a view from the side.
The back plate is not very thick. No shape to it either. Just a flat plate.

cooper 004.jpg


I have looked at other movements by Cooper and they all look like better quality stuff.
If you made a line of them this one would stick out as below par.
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Re: J. F. Cooper. London

New postby Stephan » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:41 pm

I think they are trying to confuse people with T.F.Cooper London.

http://www.antiquewatchstore.com/produc ... ts_id=1118
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Re: J. F. Cooper. London

New postby John Moane » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:43 pm

Cooper watches were not a fake as such as that was one of the names the Swiss makers used to export their watches. These watches were sold to the in English market and were well accepted as a good watch at a good price. I have had many Cooper watches in the past and they are well made, usually 15 jewels and mostly Swiss bar movements. The case can be gold, silver or base metal. I would say at a guess this one is a much later example. Stephan does it have Cooper on the dust cover of the case?
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Re: J. F. Cooper. London

New postby Stephan » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:46 pm

Hello John,
Yes the case is marked so
Patent Lever, Fully Jewelled, T.F.Cooper, London.

On the case it is a definate " T " on the Dial it is a definate " J " and on the movement it could be either.

Case is 2 3/8 dia and 3 1/4 high at the bow. No hallmarks of any kind. A tiny "SST" ( sterling ?? ) marking inside the back cover. Plated brass dust cover.

I am starting to get the feeling that this is worth saving as is if I can find the necessary parts.
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Re: J. F. Cooper. London

New postby John Moane » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:35 am

Stephan, Well worth restoring and keeping it original as time goes by these watches will be worth some good money.
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